'Ocean’s 11' With Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins
June 7, 2018 · Ocean's Eleven (2001) · Crime · Thriller · 1:04:16 · ▶ Listen on Spotify
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Casting What-Ifs
Amanda Dobbins▶ 14:32Argues Owen Wilson could play dumb better than Luke, and that Luke's version of 'dumb' fits the dumb/stupid comic register of the Malloy brothers better; worries Wilsons would have been too pretentious/arch. On Ralph Fiennes as Terry Benedict, jokes it conflicts with 'The English Patient' pairing with Julia Roberts. Notes Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt occupied the same 'handsome' lane, so Depp wouldn't have fit as Linus. Also shares that Bruce Willis was reportedly considered for Danny Ocean, which she says would've changed the whole movie since Clooney anchors it, and is glad Willis passed since it allowed for the Ocean's 12 cameo scene with Julia Roberts.
Chris Ryan▶ 13:17Presented several real casting alternatives: Luke and Owen Wilson almost played the Malloy brothers instead of Scott Caan and Casey Affleck; Joel and Ethan Coen were reportedly considered for the same roles; Ralph Fiennes was considered for Terry Benedict; Alan Arkin was originally set to play Saul; Mike Myers was attached at one point; Johnny Depp and Mark Wahlberg were both considered for Linus. Thinks Owen Wilson would have been a genius comedic choice but agrees it may have thrown off the balance.
Juliet Litman▶ 13:31Loves Owen Wilson and thinks a Wilson brothers version would have infused Bottle Rocket energy into the movie, but ultimately agrees it would have changed the vibe (more twee, more 'pitter patter' dialogue) and taken shine away from Caan/Affleck since the Wilsons had bigger profiles in 2001. Also dislikes Johnny Depp as an actor generally, so against him as Linus. Finds the Coen brothers casting idea bizarre but kind of fitting given their real-life friend group history with actors.
Sean Fennessey▶ 15:10Says the Wilson-brothers swap is the only casting what-if he'd have been okay with since the Malloy brothers are minor comic relief; otherwise feels alternate castings would have 'ruined the movie.' Confirms Ralph Fiennes was reportedly up for Terry Benedict, not Basher. Skeptical the Coen brothers casting rumor is real. Thought Johnny Depp was an interesting actor circa 2000 but 'not quite the right frequency' for this movie, lacking chemistry with Clooney.
Most Rewatchable Scene
Amanda Dobbins▶ 22:08Named several favorites: Danny and Tess's first dinner confrontation, the 'House Always Wins' speech between Clooney and Pitt, and Linus's recon/Terry Benedict day presentation leading into Julia Roberts' entrance
Chris Ryan▶ 25:59The poker scene (including Danny Ocean's entrance and banter), though he offered multiple nominees (Ruben's introduction/Take My Breath Away robbery montage, Clooney's 'This is how we're going to do it' monologue, and the Claire de Lune ending montage); ultimately settles on the poker scene 'out of affection'
Juliet Litman▶ 21:03The ending montage set to Claire de Lune, with the crew silently staring at the Bellagio fountain
Sean Fennessey▶ 24:08Bernie Mac's scenes, especially his encounter with the van dealership guy ('I'm like the genie') and his staged showdown with Linus ('White Jack')
Half-Assed Internet Research
Amanda Dobbins▶ 32:20The movie wouldn't have been as mainstream successful in black-and-white; its accessibility as a 'popcorn flick' and the commentary on celebrity would have changed significantly.
Chris Ryan▶ 32:03Shares trivia: film was considered for black-and-white (wishes it happened); code words used in the heist (Boski, Jim Brown, Miss Daisy, Jethros, Leon Spinks, Ella Fitzgerald) all correspond to actual plot elements; Clooney sent Julia Roberts a script with a $20 bill attached referencing her $20M salary; Don Cheadle was uncredited in the film due to a billing dispute but later said he'd have done it for free.
Juliet Litman▶ 32:10Black-and-white would have hurt the movie by losing key color pops (like Tess's boxing match jacket); also amused that Clooney calls it 'a picture.'
Sean Fennessey▶ 34:20Notes Don Cheadle was unbilled in Ocean's Eleven (fixed in sequels by placing him with Clooney/Pitt/Damon), calling it notable given he was one of only two Black actors in the film.
Dion Waiters Award
Amanda Dobbins▶ 35:45Julia Roberts (as Tess) - electric despite only ~8 minutes of screen time, undercurrent of disdain and impatience
Chris Ryan▶ 38:13Elliot Gould - connective tissue to 70s films, like an aged, rich Rat Pack vestige in Vegas
Juliet Litman▶ 37:36Bernie Mac (not an official nominee, her 'Jill Stein' pick) - loves his scene at the table; also notes Elliot Gould's novelty for younger viewers
Sean Fennessey▶ 35:14Elliot Gould - perfect casting evoking 70s jazzy thriller/heist cool, and funny as the voice of reason
Apex Mountain
Amanda Dobbins▶ 39:29Brad Pitt: Ocean's Eleven ('the closest I will ever get to knowing what it's like to hang out with Brad Pitt'). For Clooney: ER ('Clooney at his essential'). For Soderbergh: Ocean's Eleven.
Chris Ryan▶ 39:12Agrees Ocean's Eleven is Brad Pitt's Apex Mountain though has other performances he likes more. For Clooney, splits vote between Ocean's Eleven and Out of Sight. For Soderbergh, states 'Out of Sight is his best movie' but doesn't fully commit to it as Apex Mountain.
Juliet Litman▶ 39:19Brad Pitt: Ocean's Eleven (Rusty Ryan). For Clooney: ER, though also loves him in The Perfect Storm. For Soderbergh: The Nick.
Sean Fennessey▶ 39:23Brad Pitt: Ocean's Eleven, not close. For Clooney: Ocean's Eleven (preternatural cool is the whole point). For Soderbergh: unclear/doesn't give definitive pick, discusses Ocean's films and The Limey but says that's not his best movie.
Picking Nits
Amanda Dobbins▶ 49:21The rebuilt warehouse vault is implausibly close (~300 ft) to the real Bellagio with the fountains visible behind it; also doubts a casino would call an actual SWAT team rather than their own security, and notes there seem to be only about three security staff total in the whole casino.
Chris Ryan▶ 48:51Never fully understood how the heist worked, especially the surveillance implausibility; also nitpicks the bouncer 'beating up' Clooney for 30-40 minutes without anyone questioning it, and doubts a casino would entrust its entire security system to one British technician or call outside SWAT instead of in-house security.
Juliet Litman▶ 54:42Pushes back that it's not implausible for a seemingly wealthy stranger (Lyman) to get access in Vegas since flashing money can get you far there; otherwise mainly helps narrate/clarify the heist mechanics rather than raising her own nitpick.
Sean Fennessey▶ 52:57Ultimate nitpick: the whole heist premise only works because casinos agreed to let the movie film inside real casinos, meaning this isn't remotely how actual casino vault security/operations work; also notes it's implausible Lyman could get that much one-on-one time with the meticulous Terry Benedict.
Probably Unanswerable Questions
Amanda Dobbins▶ 49:21Nitpicks that the rebuilt warehouse vault is implausibly close (no more than 300 feet) to the real Bellagio, since the Bellagio fountains are visible right behind it in the shot
Chris Ryan▶ 48:51Says he never completely understood how the heist worked, raising it as an unanswerable question about the movie's logistics
Juliet Litman▶ 49:06Admits she watches the movie frequently but still doesn't understand how/when they filmed or built the fake vault setup, asks for clarification
Sean Fennessey▶ 49:10Attempts to explain the heist logistics: they rebuilt the presumed Bellagio vault in a warehouse based on captured footage and blueprints, though admits he's still a little confused about it
Best Quote
Amanda Dobbins▶ 57:27Nominates the scene of Clooney and Pitt sitting together (Pitt slumped with a martini/gimlet) as a favorite moment rather than a single line, agreeing the Clooney/Roberts exchange is hard to top.
Chris Ryan▶ 56:27Danny Ocean's line: 'Because the house always wins. Play long enough, you never change the stakes. The house always takes you... unless when that perfect hand comes along, you bet big and you take the house.' Also cites Rusty's follow-up ('Did you practice that?'), and Reuben's lines: 'If you're going to steal from Terry Benedict, you'd better goddamn know... with Benedict, at the end, he'd better not know you're involved, not know your names, or think you're dead, because they'll kill you and then I'll go to work on you,' plus 'You guys are pros, the best... once you're out the front door, you're still in the middle of the fucking desert.'
Juliet Litman▶ 55:58The George Clooney/Julia Roberts exchange: 'You think we need one more?'... 'You're a thief and a liar.' / 'I only lied about being a thief, I don't do that anymore. Steal, lie.' / 'I'm with someone now who doesn't have to make that kind of distinction.' / 'No, he's very clear on both.' / 'You know what your problem is?' / 'I only have one.' / 'You've met too many people like you.'
Sean Fennessey▶ 56:41The Rusty/bartender exchange: 'How's the game going?' 'Longest hour of my life.' 'What?' 'I'm running away with your wife.'
Who Won the Movie
Amanda Dobbins▶ 1:01:56Brad Pitt - agrees, noting Clooney often plays this type of role in real life/other films, while Pitt rarely gets this kind of part, so it's good for his legend long-term
Sean Fennessey▶ 1:02:49George Clooney - it's his biggest hit (aside from Gravity), his only real franchise, and he leaned into the center of his celebrity in a way he rarely does; the movie doesn't work without him at the center
Movies Referenced (27)
Directors Referenced (5)
George Clooney
48 mentions · Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey · Known for The Ides of March, Good Night, and Good Luck., Michael Clayton▶ 1:26IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Steven Soderbergh
16 mentions · Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins · Known for Sex, Lies, and Videotape, Traffic, Behind the Candelabra▶ 1:19IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Terry Benedict
15 mentions · Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Juliet Litman · Known for Hacksaw Ridge, The Terminator▶ 1:53IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Scott Conn
1 mentions · Chris Ryan · Known for Predators, Machete, Planet Terror▶ 35:07IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Actors Referenced (45)
Julia Roberts
22 mentions · Amanda Dobbins, Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman · Known for Pretty Woman, My Best Friend's Wedding▶ 1:53IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Matt Damon
16 mentions · Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins · Known for Good Will Hunting, The Martian, The Departed▶ 1:26IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Bernie Mac
7 mentions · Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Juliet Litman · Known for Ocean's Eleven▶ 24:08IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Johnny Depp
6 mentions · Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins · Known for Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl▶ 17:10IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Topher Grace
6 mentions · Chris Ryan, Amanda Dobbins, Juliet Litman · Known for In Good Company, Spider-Man 3, Traffic▶ 7:09IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Casey Affleck
5 mentions · Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman · Known for Manchester by the Sea, Light of My Life, A Ghost Story▶ 13:17IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Don Cheadle
5 mentions · Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman · Known for Crash▶ 1:26IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Owen Wilson
5 mentions · Juliet Litman, Chris Ryan · Known for The Royal Tenenbaums, Bottle Rocket, Wedding Crashers▶ 13:17IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Bruce Willis
4 mentions · Amanda Dobbins · Known for Die Hard, Pulp Fiction▶ 18:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Andy Garcia
3 mentions · Chris Ryan · Known for Ocean's Eleven, Geostorm, The Godfather Part III▶ 41:33IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Frank Sinatra
3 mentions · Juliet Litman, Chris Ryan · Known for From Here to Eternity, High Society▶ 1:26IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Writers Referenced (2)
Ted Griffin
2 mentions · Chris Ryan · Known for Ocean's Eleven▶ 33:35IMDb ↗Lb ↗
Ethan Coen
1 mentions · Chris Ryan · Known for The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, Inside Llewyn Davis, A Serious Man▶ 15:28IMDb ↗Lb ↗