‘Ordinary People’ With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin
February 1, 2022 · Ordinary People (1980) · Drama · 2:01:51
Categories
Half-Assed Internet Research
Bill SimmonsShared trivia about the generation of actors (Sean Penn, Tom Cruise, Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez) who auditioned against Hutton, how they all knew each other and auditioned for same roles, and background on Judith Guest writing the novel▶ 16:18
Mallory RubinDiscussed Redford icing out Hutton on set to create isolation, novel's shifting narration between Cal and Conrad perspectives, and background on author Judith Guest's fascination with depression▶ 14:41
Sean FennesseyAdded context about how that generation of actors worked together in subsequent films like Taps, The Outsiders, and John Hughes movies▶ 17:45
Most Rewatchable Scene
Bill SimmonsBeth in the dead son's room scene with Conrad, but acknowledges it should be 'most gripping scene' not rewatchable for this movie; also mentions the party scene with Beth's fake personality▶ 51:54
Mallory RubinDiscusses the Beth/Conrad bedroom scene in detail, focusing on the museum-like preservation of Buck's room and their inability to connect▶ 53:29
Sean FennesseyAgrees the Beth/Conrad bedroom scene is effective but questions if it's truly rewatchable, saying 'I would not fire up that scene on YouTube'▶ 53:08
What's Aged the Best
Bill SimmonsEvil Mary Tyler Moore performance, Elizabeth McGovern's career longevity, the swim coach's office as a 1980 time capsule, Redford's directing method of isolating Hutton, psychiatrists in movies, and late 70s/early 80s Chicago suburb movies▶ 1:18:53
Mallory RubinThe performances overall, the Canon in D major musical score, the fashion/sartorial style including suede jackets and wallpaper, and Conrad's book choices on his desk▶ 1:21:40
Sean FennesseyThe clothing styles (fusion of Cal and Berger's looks), the actor-to-director transition that Redford pioneered, and Chicago movies from this era including John Hughes films▶ 1:21:51
What's Aged the Worst
Bill SimmonsCanon being used as wedding song despite being from dysfunctional family movie; Sutherland's Best Actor snub; Mary Tyler Moore's casting shock value has diminished; weird dialogue moments that feel incoherent; Redford's unreliable narrator tendencies and false claims about Pauline Kael▶ 1:22:21
Casting What-Ifs
Bill SimmonsRobert Redford — Glad Redford declined Calvin role - would have been too famous and overpowered the movie, not a good enough actor for the part. Intrigued by Hackman's potential for Calvin. Prefers the actual casting choices made.▶ 1:27:37
Mallory RubinGene Hackman — Provided research on various casting possibilities including Hackman being linked to both Dr. Burger and Calvin roles, but didn't express strong preferences for alternate casting▶ 1:28:33
Hall of Fame Plaque
Bill SimmonsFrederick Lean - recognizable face who's been in many things including Zero Dark Thirty and Lost▶ 1:31:49
Sean FennesseyM.M. Walsh for 'that guy Hall of Fame' - comparing him to first ring baseball hall of famers like Lou Gehrig and Jimmy Fox▶ 1:31:28
Apex Mountain
Bill SimmonsRobert Redford — Yes for Robert Redford - peak of bankable acting career, handsome powers, just directed Oscar winner and beat Scorsese▶ 1:39:12
Bill Simmons1994 Oscars for telecast apex (Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Shawshank, Letterman with Uma/Oprah)▶ 1:41:25
Sean FennesseyRobert Redford — Yes for Robert Redford - Sundance Institute formed in 1981 after his Best Director Oscar win, peak of his power▶ 1:39:36
Sean FennesseySuggests 1975 Oscars with hosts Bob Hope, Shirley MacLaine, Sammy Davis Jr., Frank Sinatra - acknowledges the game used to be different▶ 1:42:03
Probably Unanswerable Questions
Bill SimmonsMultiple questions posed including: Gene Hackman as dad (no but wants to see it), Conrad's college (wife suggests Amherst/Williams type), Beth's golf handicap (12-13), Beth dating golf pro within 9 months▶ 1:51:31
Mallory RubinConrad goes to Michigan State, Beth remarries quickly but keeps golf separate, Beth's handicap is 10, Calvin and Beth's sex life used to convince themselves they still had something▶ 1:51:56
Sean FennesseyWarns against cold weather college experiences, wants Ward's pool as memorabilia▶ 1:52:20
Who Won the Movie
Bill SimmonsDonald Sutherland — Donald Sutherland wins the actual movie, Robert Redford wins everything that comes from the movie▶ 1:56:22
Mallory RubinRobert Redford — Suggested a shared case for Hirsch and Hutton and their scenes together, but agreed it's tough to argue against Redford▶ 1:56:10
Sean FennesseyRobert Redford — Robert Redford - directed the movie, won Best Director and Best Picture, and was the biggest movie star on the planet▶ 1:55:58
Movies Referenced (47)
| Title (year) | Links | Mentions | Mentioned by | First |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Raging Bull (1980) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 8 | Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin | ▶ 7:05 |
| Good Will Hunting (1997) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 5 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | ▶ 23:55 |
| Lights Out (2016) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 5 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 11:40 |
| Forrest Gump (1994) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 44:52 |
| Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 40:28 |
| Little Children (2006) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Sean Fennessey | ▶ 35:03 |
| The Shining (1980) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | ▶ 46:51 |
| All the President's Men (1976) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Mallory Rubin, Bill Simmons | ▶ 31:40 |
| Apocalypto (2006) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Sean Fennessey | ▶ 30:26 |
| Deadpool (2016) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 1:26:33 |
| Dirty Harry (1971) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 1:26:50 |
| Independence Day (1996) | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | ▶ 1:34:26 |
Directors Referenced (17)
| Name | Links | Mentions | Mentioned by | Known For | First |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sean Penn | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 29 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | Mystic River, 21 Grams, Dead Man Walking | ▶ 1:35 |
| Martin Scorsese | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 7 | Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin | Taxi Driver, Killers of the Flower Moon, Mean Streets | ▶ 6:39 |
| Ben Affleck | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 4 | Sean Fennessey | Argo, Gone Girl, The Town | ▶ 30:09 |
| Todd Field | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 4 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Tár, Little Children | ▶ 35:22 |
| Clint Eastwood | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Million Dollar Baby, Gran Torino, Unforgiven | ▶ 25:18 |
| Mel Gibson | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 3 | Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons | Braveheart, Lethal Weapon 3, Conspiracy Theory | ▶ 30:18 |
| Arthur Hiller | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 1:35:35 | |
| David Lynch | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Sean Fennessey | ▶ 46:09 | |
| John Hughes | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Sean Fennessey | Planes, Trains & Automobiles, Uncle Buck, The Breakfast Club | ▶ 17:55 |
| Warren Beatty | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Heaven Can Wait | ▶ 25:44 |
| Woody Allen | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons | Annie Hall | ▶ 23:27 |
| David Katzenberg | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Sean Fennessey | ▶ 5:18 |
Actors Referenced (57)
| Name | Links | Mentions | Mentioned by | Known For | First |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Robert Redford | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 59 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | The Natural, Ordinary People, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid | ▶ 5:34 |
| Timothy Hutton | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 34 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | Ordinary People, Beautiful Girls | ▶ 2:23 |
| Mary Tyler Moore | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 33 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | Ordinary People | ▶ 2:23 |
| Judd Hirsch | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 23 | Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, Sean Fennessey | The Fabelmans, Independence Day | ▶ 2:23 |
| Donald Sutherland | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 20 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | ▶ 2:23 | |
| Gene Hackman | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 10 | Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin | The French Connection, The Royal Tenenbaums, Unforgiven | ▶ 38:51 |
| Elizabeth McGovern | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 7 | Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin | Ordinary People | ▶ 11:46 |
| Adam Baldwin | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 5 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Serenity, Independence Day, Full Metal Jacket | ▶ 1:09:41 |
| Richard Dreyfuss | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 5 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Mr. Holland's Opus | ▶ 1:29:02 |
| Tom Cruise | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 5 | Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons | Top Gun, Minority Report | ▶ 17:50 |
| Elephant Man | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 4 | Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin | ▶ 40:58 | |
| Jack Nicholson | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 4 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Chinatown, As Good as It Gets, The Departed | ▶ 47:03 |
Writers Referenced (7)
| Name | Links | Mentions | Mentioned by | Known For | First |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Judith Guest | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 4 | Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey | Ordinary People | ▶ 19:42 |
| Alvin Sargent | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Bill Simmons | Spider-Man 2, Ordinary People | ▶ 38:12 |
| Hunter S. Thompson | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Mallory Rubin | ▶ 1:21:26 | |
| Jeffrey Katzenberg | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Bill Simmons | Shrek, Just Like Heaven | ▶ 1:36:00 |
| Michael Cimino | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Sean Fennessey | The Deer Hunter | ▶ 6:31 |
| Roger Ebert | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Bill Simmons | ▶ 51:23 | |
| Virginia Woolf | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 1 | Sean Fennessey | ▶ 12:52 |
Cinematographers Referenced (1)
| Name | Links | Mentions | Mentioned by | Known For | First |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Michael Grantland | IMDb ↗Lb ↗ | 2 | Bill Simmons | The Other Guys | ▶ 0:20 |