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‘Rounders’ With Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey

September 11, 2018 · Rounders (1998) · Crime · Drama · 1:33:27 · ▶ Listen on Spotify

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Most Rewatchable Scene

Bill Simmons▶ 26:01Gretchen Mull moves out of the apartment scene, leading to Ed Norton's 'woman or the fucking rake' speech and Mike McD's decision to play cards again
Sean Fennessey▶ 23:56The opening scene where Mike McD loses his shirt to Teddy KGB
Sean Fennessey▶ 40:48A late addendum he explicitly did NOT nominate: he loves the bar scene where the story of leaving the yeshiva is told to Mike over poured gin ('always gin') — 'movies like this need an old guy.'

What's Aged the Best

Bill Simmons▶ 29:08Damon and Norton at really fun times of their careers, part of a great talent cluster from the mid-90s including Leo, Brad Pitt, and others; Russians as villains becoming more believable over time
Sean Fennessey▶ 34:42The movie looks surprisingly cool and not dated for 1998; it's a good New York movie that captures the seedy but exciting NYC feeling authentically

What's Aged the Worst

Bill Simmons▶ 35:54Gretchen Mol as the stereotypical wet blanket girlfriend; the card scene with judges where Mike reads everyone's hand in 14 seconds; Mike not hooking up with Famke Janssen
Sean Fennessey▶ 36:56Agrees with the wet blanket girlfriend critique, explaining it stems from male writers projecting their own relationship anxieties; acknowledges the card reading scene is implausible but defends it somewhat; discusses Famke Janssen as a 'manic poker dream girl' fantasy

Casting What-Ifs

Bill Simmons▶ 44:02Neve Campbell — Neve Campbell turned down the role of Joe and would have made the movie work better as a better actress
Sean Fennessey▶ 44:22Neve Campbell — Agrees Neve Campbell would have been better for Joe because she's inherently sympathetic and you would care about her point of view

Dion Waiters Award

Bill Simmons▶ 45:22John Malkovich — John Malkovich as Teddy KGB - only in 2-3 scenes but delivers incredible performance
Sean Fennessey▶ 45:40John Turturro — Acknowledges KGB but advocates strongly for John Turturro as Kanish, praising his great lines and realistic portrayal of poker players

Joey Pants Award

Bill Simmons▶ 47:30Lenny Clarke — Highlights Lenny Clark in poker scenes and Michael Raspoli as grandma character

Who Won the Movie

Bill Simmons▶ 50:26Johnny Chan — Johnny Chan - he's in the top four because he won the World Series of Poker twice when nobody cared, has the perfect poker name, and became the Muhammad Ali of poker because of this movie
Bill Simmons▶ 1:29:11Matt Damon — an old-school Tom Cruise-style star part with little on the page that only Damon (ironically, maybe Ed Norton) could pull off; also argues you could say Koppelman and Levine won it, which is what he wrote in his column.
Sean Fennessey▶ 50:56Johnny Chan — Johnny Chan - agrees he's like the Muhammad Ali of boxing and stands alone in the poker world
Sean Fennessey▶ 1:31:44First pick: John Malkovich (most memorable, most quoted, the character men of a couple generations still imitate at tables); after Bill raises the writers, he concedes 'It's probably Koppelman and Levine' — they parlayed it into thriving careers.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Bill Simmons▶ 53:14Acknowledges the Doyle Brunson trivia and applies his rule that 'if you have something named after you, you've done something well' - noting that Brunson is a poker player who has a hand named after him.
Sean Fennessey▶ 52:52Doyle Brunson's Super System book appears in the opening shots when Mike McDermott pulls money from hiding places - it's the book he pulls money out of. Also mentions the 10-2 hand is called 'the Doyle Brunson' after the legendary poker player who won the World Series of Poker with that hand.

Apex Mountain

Bill Simmons▶ 54:47Johnny Chan — Matt Damon: Not Rounders, probably first Bourne movie; Ed Norton: Not Rounders, Fight Club; Johnny Chan: 100% yes, Rounders; John Turturro: Maybe Rounders-Lebowski combo but probably not; John Malkovich: Initially said Dangerous Liaisons, then agreed Being John Malkovich after Sean's suggestion
Sean Fennessey▶ 55:24Being John Malkovich — Gretchen Mol: Not Rounders, probably The Notorious Bettie Page; John Turturro: Probably Barton Fink; John Malkovich: Being John Malkovich (they named the movie after him)

Best Quote

Bill Simmons▶ 1:11:57Hanging around. Hanging around. Hanging around. Kids got alligator blood.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Bill Simmons▶ 1:12:37Posed and answered a run of them: argues Kanish may have been the smartest of everyone and the movie's real hero (owned his business, refused Mike the $10K, stayed away from Worm); ranks Johnny Chan's cameo up with the all-time sports cameos (bar: Hulk Hogan in Rocky III); relays Koppelman and Levine's canonical answer that Worm went to a backroom game in the Bronx and later scammed the online-poker boom; and concludes the movie came out at the perfect time for its legacy (optimal case: a year later, post-Ripley).
Sean Fennessey▶ 1:15:39His favorite gambling movie is California Split (Altman), but Rounders is 'head and shoulders' the best poker movie ever; doubts Jo actually gave Petrovsky the $10,000 back and thinks Petrovsky lending Mike the money at all was ludicrous; on release timing, ideally two weeks before the Moneymaker boom, but ultimately 'I think it worked out perfectly.'

Movies Referenced (40)

Good Will Hunting (1997)

6 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons▶ 4:16IMDb ↗Lb ↗

25th Hour (2002)

3 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons▶ 29:36IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Blue Chips (1994)

3 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey▶ 1:14:48IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Fight Club (1999)

3 mentions · Bill Simmons▶ 29:45IMDb ↗Lb ↗

John Wick (2014)

3 mentions · Bill Simmons▶ 10:59IMDb ↗Lb ↗

School Ties (1992)

3 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons▶ 13:04IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Another Round (2020)

2 mentions · Sean Fennessey▶ 1:19:25IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Barton Fink (1991)

2 mentions · Sean Fennessey▶ 56:19IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Dangerous Liaisons (1988)

2 mentions · Bill Simmons▶ 56:30IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Dazed and Confused (1993)

2 mentions · Bill Simmons▶ 10:48IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Rushmore (1998)

2 mentions · Bill Simmons▶ 36:11IMDb ↗Lb ↗

The Illusionist (2006)

2 mentions · Sean Fennessey▶ 33:59IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Directors Referenced (7)

Ben Affleck

7 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Argo, Gone Girl, The Town▶ 1:21:27IMDb ↗Lb ↗

George Clooney

2 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for The Ides of March, Good Night, and Good Luck., Michael Clayton▶ 31:50IMDb ↗Lb ↗

John Dahl

2 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for The Last Seduction, Red Rock West▶ 8:35IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Francis Ford Coppola

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for Apocalypse Now, The Conversation, The Godfather Part II▶ 14:06IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Mel Gibson

1 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Braveheart, Conspiracy Theory▶ 5:49IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Robert Altman

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for Gosford Park, Nashville, Short Cuts▶ 1:15:39IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Woody Allen

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for Annie Hall, Manhattan, Deconstructing Harry▶ 29:58IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Actors Referenced (68)

Matt Damon

40 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Good Will Hunting, The Martian, The Departed▶ 1:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Edward Norton

26 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Fight Club, American History X, Primal Fear▶ 1:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗

David Levine

20 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for The Ice Storm▶ 2:19IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Johnny Chan

19 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Rounders, Lucky You▶ 22:05IMDb ↗Lb ↗

John Malkovich

17 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons · Known for In the Line of Fire, Being John Malkovich, Burn After Reading▶ 1:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Will Smith

10 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons · Known for Men in Black, I Am Legend▶ 4:16IMDb ↗Lb ↗

John Turturro

6 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Barton Fink, O Brother, Where Art Thou?▶ 1:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Martin Landau

6 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Ed Wood, Crimes and Misdemeanors, North by Northwest▶ 1:29IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Big Al

5 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey▶ 3:34IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Doyle Brunson

5 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Lucky You▶ 22:12IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Counting Crows

4 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Shrek 2, Cruel Intentions, Two Weeks Notice▶ 51:30IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Steve Buscemi

4 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Fargo, Ghost World, Reservoir Dogs▶ 58:04IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Writers Referenced (9)

Brian Koppelman

38 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Runaway Jury, Runner Runner, Michael Clayton▶ 2:19IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Jesse Armstrong

4 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for In the Loop, Four Lions▶ 1:31:03IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Harvey Weinstein

2 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for Shakespeare in Love, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Hateful Eight▶ 8:44IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Roger Ebert

2 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey▶ 12:02IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Ryan Murphy

2 mentions · Sean Fennessey, Bill Simmons▶ 30:19IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Armando Iannucci

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for The Death of Stalin, In the Loop▶ 1:31:17IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Michael Cedeno

1 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Hercules, Treasure Planet▶ 1:14:50IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Scott Alexander

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for Big Eyes▶ 30:15IMDb ↗Lb ↗

William Goldman

1 mentions · Bill Simmons · Known for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, All the President's Men, The Princess Bride▶ 5:57IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Cinematographers Referenced (2)

Michael Grantland

4 mentions · Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey · Known for The Taking of Pelham 123, The Other Guys▶ 41:07IMDb ↗Lb ↗

Josh Kraszewski

1 mentions · Sean Fennessey · Known for Roger Dodger▶ 30:15IMDb ↗Lb ↗